Danielle Belton Online

Now with more drama for your mama

Friday, April 15, 2005

Woes at Downtown Joes

They closed Downtown Joes (AKA the Bullpen AKA whatever they called it before it was the Bullpen). In case you were under a rock or out of town like me, the downtown bar spot was once again the backdrop to someone's grisly death. Namely Daniel Hector Sepeda who was allegedly involved in a 10 person fight and wound up dying of strangulation according to the county coroner.

Back when this place was the Bullpen I was out on that night in 2002 when a man was murdered after a guy decided to go all Rambo and fire at random into a crowded street. I went home about two hours before things went feral as I thought the crowd had an eerie "mob mentality" vibe going on about it. A party was raging at a business a friend of mine owned. The Bullpen, Riley's, the Alley Cat and just about every bar on the block was packed and there wasn't a cop in sight. So I listened to my spidey sense and went home.

That nightmare resulted in several people getting hurt, a guy getting killed, my friend having to close down his business, downtown being a dead zone for several weekends and the Bullpen closing only to reopen as Downtown Joes. I don't know what's up with this place. Back when I started doing bar reviews they asked if I'd come out to review their establishment, but I didn't even feel safe when crossing the street near the place. Needless to say, I wasn't going in there.

Since they've decided to close the business for good I don't know what's going to happen. It's not like we need another vacant building on that street looking like bombed out graffiti plastered crap. We've got the old department store on the corner for that. And folks are trying to build downtown up, not add to the blight.

Personally, I think they should gut the place, bring in some priests to clear out all the bad juju and remodel the joint into the sort of place where people won't get the urge to shoot someone or start a ten person fight. Kosmos (which used to be Goose Loonies) is a nice place. It would be nice to have something else on that level, but with a different theme on the street.

Folks won't start to treat things differently unless they look differently. Put some pride into your surroundings and people will think twice about spray painting all over them. And if you do get tagged, try to get it cleaned up as soon as possible to make your point that you're not going to tolerate such tomfoolery. I mean, it's pretty ridiculous that we're the larger city, but Visalia has a better downtown than us.

Visalia, people. Visalia!

Nice town, BTW. Some of my best friends live in Visalia.

Anyway, I hate the amount of BS you have to deal with when you go out downtown sometimes. For every Fishlips and Gumbeaux's there's hole-in-the-wall with a bunch of jerks knocking folks' heads in because they decided to get liquored up and act a fool. And I know people are angry at the bouncers, but geez-a-lou, why on earth was there a 10 person fight going on in the first place? Something is terribly, terribly wrong here. If fights weren't this much of a problem this would be a non-issue. Why people, why?

Thoughts? Arguments? Questions?

posted by Danielle Belton @ 2:24 PM  

43 Comments:

  • At 8:32 AM, Blogger Nick Belardes said…

    I was talking to Kenny Mount of the Filthies two days ago and he mentioned that as they tour the only other place he has ever encountered such deviant streets was in Chico. "People just seem to get along most places," he said. I agree, a nice Indie venue on the corner where the music scene can thrive... put the dance clubs somewhere else... make the downtown the alt music capital of Nashville West with its news sounds in Rural Rock Punk, Quiet is the New Loud, et. al...

     

  • At 10:18 AM, Blogger Danielle Belton said…

    Well, being from the STL I've just become saddened and exhausted from folks shooting up clubs, bouncers killing people and large fights. I mean, East St. Louis, Ill. the designated strip club haven and party spot of both eastsiders and St. Louisians, has been plagued with violence for years. Of course St. Louis is unapolegetically Catholic, so all our downtown businesses close at 5 p.m., the clubs close at 2 a.m. and no strippers are allowed anywhere.

    You want that you go to Illinois.

    That's why in East Saint you can party until 5 a.m. But then you can also get shot. Or beat up. Or robbed. But East Saint has about 10 million other problems to go with the fact that their night clubs are plagued with violence.

    Still, it's sad. The black clubs on the east side used to be the place where Ike and Tina got their start. Now they're the place where DJ Quik infamously got the crap kicked out of him. The night club beatdown was so memorable he wrote about it in his song "Just Like Compton."

    Of course he shouted out St. Louis because like most people he didn't realize East Saint and the Lou are two entirely different places in different states. But whatever. Mos Def shouted out East Saint on "Rock n' Roll" so that had to make them feel good.

    Long story short ... I'm sick of people dying when they just went out to have fun. What the hell, people? I heard enough of this crap when I lived in the midwest. But I lived through the 90s when people in St. Louis and East Saint where getting shot over Jordans and Starter coats, so I guess I should be used to this level of waste by now.

     

  • At 3:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I've been to the bar in it's former incarnations as Bullpen, and whatever it was before -- and always felt they had a rough and rowdy crowd there. Rough + rowdy + alcohol = violence. I am so glad to see that place closed, but would like something else to open in its place.

    Do you think Bakersfield could be ready to support an upscale lounge along the lines of the bar at Cafe Med? Maybe a wine bar or martini lounge.....or anything that wouldn't appeal to the t-shirt-ed thug types? Thoughts?

    First,

     

  • At 4:09 PM, Blogger Danielle Belton said…

    I think it could, the problem is that part of 19th is anchored by an abandoned department store that in its present state is an eye sore. Then there's an empty building across the street from the former Downtown Joes, an empty restaurant, a burned-out empty Chinese take-out restaurtant, Helping Hands, a wig shop and P and F's Clothes. Then you've got Jerry's nearby, Downtown Records, the Hookah Smoke shop, the Alley Cat and Riley's.

    Compared to the other end of 19th, which has the Spotlight Theatre, Kosmos, a dog grooming bar, a bridal shop, a high end dress shop, an antiques shop and furniture store it's like another world.

    I don't know if in that location someone could go Cafe Med. (There's a spot on the corner of 19th and H St. across from the Spotlight that could though.) Believe me, I'd LOVE a Cafe Med style place downtown. I live downtown and I hate having to drive to get my fill of pita bread and hot waiters.

    But to fit in with the present establishments and bring up the block I think a nice indie rock venue would be good. It's big enough to have really good rock shows and they could find a nice medium — re: not being a dive bar, but not being too expensive. The goal on that end of 19th is to attract the best of downtown's nightlife -- broke coffee loving college kids, young married couples, nerds, artsy fartsy frou frous, the under 30 staff at The Californian and yuppies.

    We drink as much as everyone else only we're less likely to cause a riot. We have college loans and bills to pay.

    It should be like the rock 'n' roll equivalent of Dagny's but with European beers, martinis and food. I'd totally go to that place. So it needs a classy gimmick, but not too classy as to not off-put the non-violent patron who may hunger for more, but would be intimidated by ordering wine. Something bookish, retro and vintage but not inaccessible.

    So I guess I'd like to see a bar that feels like a coffeehouse with open-mics, artwork by locals, good food and good, fun/mellow indie rock bands. I think that would be the business that would have the best chance to survive that first horrid year that all new businesses have to go through.

    Name it after a Beatles song and you're good to go.

     

  • At 7:28 AM, Blogger Nick Belardes said…

    I agree with Danielle... Guppy? Vinny? See... Kelly? I know you're out there talking it up saying you're ready to do something interesting in the scene just like what's being talked about here... I heard a conversation on this topic exactly the night before the Californian reported the bar sold, and again last Saturday night at Vinnys... there's talk, there are rumors... the music scene is exploding... who will step up? Who will create the perfect Indie venue?

     

  • At 8:57 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I'm envisioning something like The Planet from The L Word. A hot female DJ would be nice, too.

     

  • At 9:35 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    First of all the original name of that bar was Spikes and it opened around '97. My husband was one of the first bouncers in that bar and despite what people think the bouncers are just doing their job and trying to keep 98% of the patrons safe and not just waiting around to crack the heads of the 2% of idiots that come in!! All those bouncers downtown would much rather have a quiet night!! I agree that a nicer establishment would be welcome down there, but with Riley's & The Alley Cat close by I don't see some high end establishment taking the risk of opening in the spot!! Chalk one up for the drunk idiots!!

     

  • At 10:15 AM, Blogger Danielle Belton said…

    Well, it would have to be a real concerted effort between the bars in that area to get it under control. And essentially what they'd have to do is ... dare I say it ... enforce a dress code.

    Now I normally hate dress codes because it involves stereotyping on a massive scale, they can be both arbitrary and draconian, and enforcing any sort of dress code will piss off a great load of drunks. But demanding folks dress accordingly will attract a different, less trouble making crowd. I mean, I thought that was the reason why they remodeled the Wall Street Alley. Before it looked like somewhere you might get shanked.

    The dress code doesn't have to insane. In larger cities they usually just go with "No tennis shoes; no hats; no sportswear." But for some reason, and in some places, this works.

    This is part of what I call the "Church Theory:" If everyone is dressed nice they tend to act nicer. No one wants to scuff up their Stacey Adams or get beer on their pimp suit. If you scuff up yer wife beater and Dickies, you just kind of brush it off. No one's wants to fight when they're in their Froggy-Went-A-Courtin' duds.

     

  • At 11:11 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Until you can get the people to set a dress code for themselves and their children it won’t fly. There used to be a dress code (unwritten) for schools, public places, churches, weddings & funerals. I see students at school wearing clothes I wouldn’t give to a homeless person. It seems that has all gone by way of the Suez Canal………….down the drain. There is a need to put back in place, a dress code in the schools not only for the students but for the teachers as well.

    People want the “freedom” to do as they please regardless of what is appropriate. I have seen people at weddings wearing rubber thongs, shorts and a tank top. The attitude being, ‘just be glad I showed up at your event’. Start actually putting “rules” in place and the ACLU will have a field day!

    You are correct in saying the “Church Theory” works. It does. The way we dressed in high school (dress code strictly enforced) there was the odd fist fight or two (usually the black leather jacket & motor cycle boots guys) but nothing egregious. Girls in dresses with petticoats looked kind of weird scuffling! Boys in slacks, loafers, and dress shirts didn’t want to “mess up” their clothes! To cap it off, the school actually had the authority to enforce dress code and disciplinary rules. In order to get dress codes back in place it will take people (parents) enforcing it at home before it can be enforced anywhere else. However, today’s parents aren’t going to do that – especially in California.

     

  • At 11:42 AM, Blogger Danielle Belton said…

    Being from the midwest and raised by a pair of southerners, it's been oft-putting to see folks wear plastic flip flips and cut-offs to funerals since I moved to B-town. I mean, my mother was raised by sharecroppers, but she always had at least one nice dress. Nowadays everyone walks around like they just came from either A) the gym, B) the beach, C) the latest Snoop Dogg video.

    But back to the rowdy bar scene on 19th Street ... has anyone read Robert Price's column today? Yet again the question was raised as to why on earth was a ten person brawl going on?

    This isn't the wild, wild west, people. Who are these folks? And why did they feel the need go all Michael Jackson and get "Blood on the Dance floor?" (Worst. Michael Jackson. Song. Ever.) None of this would have happened if no one was fighting in the first place. What do you all think local bars need to do to keep this type of insanity under control?

    I stand by my dress code suggestion. Any other ideas?

     

  • At 12:07 PM, Blogger Danielle Belton said…

    Real mature, buddy. Come back when you can articulate a legitimate argument.

     

  • At 2:03 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I do not blame the bouncers at all. They are there for obvious reasons. When you are handling a bunch of childish drunks, things are bound to get out of hand. The bouncers are not to balme, they were just doing their job. I always want to go out to the bars, and my boyfriend NEVER wants to go and one reason he always argued, is reasons like this. I hate when he wins an argument. I guess I won't be going to clubs. I guess there are better things to do anyway.

     

  • At 2:12 PM, Blogger Danielle Belton said…

    To co-opt a post-Sept. 11th phrase ...

    "If you stop going to the bars, the childish drunks win!"

    But don't go to the crappy bars. Deny them your nickel. Go to the nice places. The places where people don't get stabbed. Like the Cigar Co. on 17th, Gumbeaux's on Chester, PJ's Jazz and Blues on K Street or Fishlips on 18th.

     

  • At 2:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I just read the blogs, and Danielle ... a dress code? In Bakersfield?

    First, you'd have to educate them as to what the words "dress code" mean, and then you'd need to put them back in high school to get their diplomas, and then ... oh, I'm tired thinking about it.

    Sorry for pissing on the general populace of Bako, but in my opinion,
    the impression the rest of the civilized world has about our little hamlet is tragically accurate, and I doubt a dress code will save the malaise of downtown.

    According to an expert source, Kern County's population has the lowest education level in the state, and Bakersfield has the lowest levels in Kern County. Now, if you're selling
    doublewides, that's a good thing — but if you're running a business that
    requires a consumer to be civilized, spend money, and not pee outdoors —
    you may run in to a hurdle or two.

    My solution? Three steps: first, pay off the legislators (so they'll slide the permits through etc. and so they'll support the following plan); second, buy up the whole corner (for a song, based on how well you paid off the alderman, or city councilors or whoever) and put in a fine dining establishment, a fancy microbrewery, and a jazz club/piano bar — all high end but with different themes, ala "Let Us Entertain You" in the midwest); and third, create a mafia to enforce, protect, and maintain the downtown area who can work in conjunction with the police department. It works in Chicago! No one 'keeps the trash out of the streets' better than the Pontarellis, I assure you. I think that's why they call their business "waste management."

    As far as "indie" goes, there's plenty of land in east and northeast Bako to build them a little world, and then you could put a little world in the west or northwest for the college crowd. Leave downtown to my generation. Believe me, us 30somethings with discretionary income have all but outgrown "indie" and never liked the Jerry's Pizza crowd, even when we were buying our drugs from them.

    And as for the violent thugs, the kind of dives they like should be built on the corners in their own neighborhoods so that they don't come out of their areas.

    That's my opinion, but take it with a grain of salt.

     

  • At 2:26 PM, Blogger Danielle Belton said…

    Hey David, buddy! Tell us how you really feel! :)

     

  • At 3:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    After reading all the posted items, I feel the need to point out an obvious problem. There is no one, NO ONE, taking responsibilty for what happened. Where are the 9 other patrons that were a part of this brawl? (10 people is not a fight, it is a riot/brawl!)

    Many other patrons were able to keep from becoming involved.. why not the 'victim'? Why was it necessary for a bouncer to remove him physically with a choke hold!? (I've seen the pictures, Mr. Sepdea isn't a 'small' man by any means.)

    And what's with the retalitory mentality? Does it not appear to be that of 'mobs' or 'gangs'? I am appalled at the comments that have been splayed across broken windows and the threats that have proportedly been made, it's ridiculolus. Total 'gangster' .. penal code description for homicide.. we'll get even.. they're realy saying 'my homies wanna rumble your homies..' PLLEEASE!

    Are the people writing and making these threats going to seek out everyone that was present that night and hold them accountable for Mr. Sepeda's actions? Threatening to "get even" is just perpetuating the problem.

    This whole episode stinks of a Rodney King type problem. People rioted, beat innocent people, many were hurt, maimed, killed. Businesses were burned, looted and destroyed! So many were caught up in the frenzie! People rushed to cry 'brutality', and yet forgot how it started in the first place.. the man disobeyed direct orders from the police.. he choose to fight instead of laying down! Mr. Sepeda apparently chose to participate in a bar brawl! I don't know about you, but my knowledge of a fight is one winner one loser.. someone always loses!

    Do not misunderstand. My heart goes out to his family, this indeed is tragic. Mr. Sepeda certainly did not deserve to die, but where does personal responsiblity begin and end? We need to remember that Mr. Sepeda had choices Saturday night, and he made the wrong ones.

     

  • At 5:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I am a 23 year old college student, an I still don't understand why everyone must drink in order to have a good time... I think I will do my activities at home or friends houses. Bars, yuck. Where are the classy Bakersfieldians???? Help I am losing everyone to drugs or alcohol, lol or both.

     

  • At 5:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    When will it all end? If those bouncers are held responsible, I will go crazy. I feel sorry for the loved ones of him, and especially his children. Unfortunately, people must take responsibility for their own actions. The bouncers were doing their job. He had the choice to end up in a huge brawl. When things are caotic, and their our a lot of people involved, with loud music blarring, voices blarring, people back to back, stomach to stomach, behind to behind, oh and alcohol wow imagine what might happen. What could happen? What has happened... and what happened again.

     

  • At 9:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I don’t think the violence will end. It has only escalated over the years and unless and until you can run all the gangs out of town on a rail it is only going to get worse. The perfect example is the graffiti on Downtown Joe’s establishment. All the gang people combined in this town don’t have enough brain cells to even spell correctly or make a complete sentence let alone be smart enough to walk away from a fight. I no longer view them as people but as predators AKA animals. Even animals aren’t that bad – they only kill for food or defending their young.

    I agree that Mr. Sepeda should have been responsible enough and adult enough to walk away if that is what it would have taken to avoid a fight of any kind. But then I guess the Hispanic machismo would have been brought into question and God forbid THAT occurs. Mr. Sepeda would be alive if he had been spending time with his wife and kids instead of hanging out in a bar. Have to have a beer? Have one at home.

    The “age of innocence” was the late 50’s, early 60’s when kids could “cruise” Chester, go to the movies for a 50 cents, go to drive-ins for a dollar a carload, the football games, dances etc. Now the kids who would have enjoyed all that have to find new ways to entertain themselves ergo we now have adults who, as kids, got entertainment from fights, gangs, drugs, alcohol, gangsta rap music & pornographic rap videos that suggest violence is the only way to be the “big man on campus”. Back “when” we also had families who cared enough to demand to know where we were and who we were with and we’d better be in the house by 10pm or else! Now we just have the Mr. Sepedas’ who’s family’s want to blame and sue everybody because their family member didn’t have the common sense to be responsible.
    I don’t think the violence will end. It has only escalated over the years and unless and until you can run all the gangs out of town on a rail it is only going to get worse. The perfect example is the graffiti on Downtown Joe’s establishment. All the gang people combined in this town don’t have enough brain cells to even spell correctly or make a complete sentence let alone be smart enough to walk away from a fight. I no longer view them as people but as predators AKA animals. Even animals aren’t that bad – they only kill for food or defending their young.

    I agree that Mr. Sepeda should have been responsible enough and adult enough to walk away if that is what it would have taken to avoid a fight of any kind. But then I guess the Hispanic machismo would have been brought into question and God forbid THAT occurs. Mr. Sepeda would be alive if he had been spending time with his wife and kids instead of hanging out in a bar. Have to have a beer? Have one at home.

    The “age of innocence” was the late 50’s, early 60’s when kids could “cruise” Chester, go to the movies for a 50 cents, go to drive-ins for a dollar a carload, the football games, dances etc. Now the kids who would have enjoyed all that have to find new ways to entertain themselves ergo we now have adults who, as kids, got entertainment from fights, gangs, drugs, alcohol, gangsta rap music & pornographic rap videos that suggest violence is the only way to be the “big man on campus”. Back “when” we also had families who cared enough to demand to know where we were and who we were with and we’d better be in the house by 10pm or else! Now we just have the Mr. Sepedas’ who’s family’s want to blame and sue everybody because their family member didn’t have the common sense to be responsible.

     

  • At 8:08 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Although I don't know the details of the incident and I certainly cannot determine who is to blame, I would be curious to see the rap sheets and gang affiliations of the deceased and others involved. It was curious to see the gang relate "tagging" on the outside of the bar after the incident.

     

  • At 9:40 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Adam says.......
    In my opinion Downtown Bakersfield or any club in Bakersfield has not been the ideal place for anyone to hang out. I have seen numerous acts of violence occur with the instigator of the situation ranging from a drunken citizen to a police officer or security guard with the attitude that he/she is untouchable. I have also seen situations where a fight is occurring while the police officers on the beat patiently wait until the situation defuses before they themselves intervene with billy clubs and pepper spray blarring. I don't believe that a person can place the blame totally on one party in the recent death of Daniele Sepeda. I believe that it is the entire structure of downtown which is to blame. You cannot blame Sepeda for being drunk......isn't that at least half of the reason why one chooses to go to a establishment which serves drinks. And has anyone seen some of the security guards at this establishment. Some of these security guards are some big motha#$%^@#! that I would not just run up on from the shoulders. With that said, I do not believe that it took that many security guards to hold him down until the police arrived. And where were the police? Probably in the car eating their donuts or talking on their cell phones.

     

  • At 10:07 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    There is a difference between an upscale martini or wine bar and a rowdy booze bar. It's not the alcohol licenses that breed violence. It's the clientele. Raise the bar on bars and you'll attract more responsible customers. You'll probably make more money off of them too. An $8 appletini is a better money maker than a $2.50 draft special.

     

  • At 10:25 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I agree it is the clientele. One can't forget Adam, I think It was, There were death threats and everything else on that building after the incident. What does this tell you? Gang writing etc..If it was me that died, I seriously doubt sur 13, or whatever it is would have been tagged there. People need to be hels accountable for their own actions. I am not saying some bouncers downtown don't have some major attitude problems, because they do, especially at Riley's. I do not like them, but since incidents like this have happened more than once, do not be suprised if people do not learn, and some one else will be threatening lawsuits. People have been warned, only the responsible AND wise, will listen!

     

  • At 2:20 PM, Blogger Nick Belardes said…

    You can check out a comprehensive list of news links to these stories on nlbelardes.com. In Matt Drudge fashion, I broke the initial story 5.5 hours before the Californian...

     

  • At 3:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    ok... after reading the INSANELY long list of comments... bottom line... downtown sucks. I do agree with the multiple comments of having an indi-cafe sorta thing.. something more relaxed but still fun... and I really like the female DJ idea (I'm available!!, hehe) .. but a big argument I see made here is "It wont happen because of Rileys, Alley, ect.. all nearby"... I know some of those bar owners personally, and they are just as tired of this crap as we are.. its not good for their bussiness... and I think that something of a more "responsible" atmosphere moving in downtown might encourage some of the other bars to make a few upgrade changes. I have several ideas about this, far to many to post here.. but anyone interested in seriously discussing this and trying to brainstorm ideas and solutions that even aside from a new place, that we as citizens might be able to do to help our downtown, feel free to email me. JennaChou@aol.com ..... well, thats my 2 cents for the day. *Smiles*

     

  • At 4:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Take it from a close insider, Daniel Sepeda AKA "Danny" was not involved in the brawl, he was a good samaritan trying to stop the fight. Unfortunately, he died trying to help out. People who new Danny are outrage, because he was a sweet heart and always worked to do good to all!!!!!!!!!!!

     

  • At 4:25 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    those who new Daniel, new him well for they are the ones who mourn his death, they are the ones who knew him best. Yes many may say, he should of been with his family? That may be true, if we could see beyond the future we would agree. however who of you out there can say I knew him well, those who did cry out in pain ,because they just cannot believe that such a good guy is dead.

     

  • At 9:46 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Outside of the Alley Cat and Rileys, there are also other mellow places where people can "hang out" and have a nice glass of wine, beer, even a coffee. They do have appletini's too but not for no $8 bucks, come on now. The Syndicate is an upscale place where you can do that. It is downtowns best kept secret where you can have both. And they have live acoustic music too (aka)open mic nights. Yes it is in between the cat and rileys but they've never had any problems of violence like the others. Oh yeah, they have cigars and cig's too! Not to mention bartenders with big Boobs!

     

  • At 2:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    For every place in Bakersfield that is even a remotely nice establishment, there are 20 joints whose claim to fame is that of being a meat market. As a twenty-something living in Bakersfield, I find myself often diappointed with this lifestyle. I have no desire to go to an unsafe building with a bunch of drunken fools and feel violated by them.

    It isn't like Bakersfield really is a poor hick town, it's just that the downtown scene has simply succumb to that mentality. Hell, it's easier to live up to low expectations than to exceed and set the bar higher, right? We need people to run and operate these buildings that are willing to create change. People who are willing to create beauty instead of the ugliness of mediocricy.

    Where are the high paid business men, the members of city council, the independently wealthy? Tell all of them we want a NICE jazz bar or a fancy restaurant unlike anything we have in town. I'm in my twenties and in a relationship. A place like Downtown Joe's never got my money, and never will. But a nice jazz/piano bar, and a fancy restaurant within walking distace. That's a night out on the town for couples, and singles who want to go out and have a fun relaxing evening, free of people in a drunken stupor.

    When I lived in Chicago, a night on the town meant getting dressed up, spending a little money, and going to a nice restaurant followed by a little dancing at a refined, elegant establishement. Why can't Bakersfield have something like this, or maybe it's not that we can't, it's just that no one is trying.

     

  • At 3:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Bars that need bouncers to keep people in line should not even exist. A father of three children who decides to go out drinking should have his head examined. It's as easy as that.

     

  • At 7:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Dizzle says:
    I was at the last incident that occured in that area back in 2002. I left right before the shooting occured. You get a certain vibe when things like this are about to happen. People were also getting stabbed up that night and there were no police in sight. Proper security is the key to preventing anything like this again. Police know the hot spots on the weekend, can't be to many in Bakersfield. They should stay patrolling these area during party hours.

     

  • At 8:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Maybe we won't ever know what really happened that night, but

     

  • At 10:38 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    The problem of assaults in or around bars seems to be a local problem that is not going to go away with the simple changing or a facilities name. Fights are going to continue to occur for many reason, anywhere, and at anytime. As long as alcohol is around it will magnify the situation and people will continue to behave aggressively, mean and obnoxious. There also seems to be a lack of policing which means that there needs to be an analysis of the local problem to help design an effective strategy to reduce the violence that occurs downtown, otherwise the situation will continue to be unsafe for all.

     

  • At 10:44 AM, Blogger David J. Montgomery said…

    Bakersfield hardly has the monopoly on people dressing (or acting) inappropriately.

    I did enjoy the line in the story about the funeral, though, that reported the mourners were sipping from oversized beers during the burial. Wonderful imagery.

     

  • At 11:02 AM, Blogger Danielle Belton said…

    I think if there was an nice establishment the same size as Downtown Joe's, but with none of the violence it would help out the other bars on that street.

    Someone mentioned the Syndicate and I know it's a nice place and would do even better if it had another nice spot nearby. If there's a large influx of a higher quality crowd in order to compete other businesses will alter how they go about things. These are businesses, after all. The bottomline is to make money. And believe me, if yuppies took over downtown influx every bar would have a friggin' expresso machine in it and look like a "Planet Hollywood/Applebees" reject.

    But first you'd need something just to get a higher end client down there. As I said before ... priest, holy water, gut building, start over ...

     

  • At 2:03 PM, Blogger Danielle Belton said…

    Although I can understand your anger I simply don't see how retalition would solve this problem. It would only add to it. It sounds rote and cliche but violence truly does solve nothing, unless you want more violence. Someone eventually has to take responsibilty and work on a solution that doesn't involve further bloodshed. Like making downtown safer.

    I had a cousin back in St. Louis who was killed by another man during a fight. Hurting the man who killed my cousin was not going to bring my cousin back. In the end we had to accept the fact that he was murdered and let the justice system do their job, even if it meant that we would not get the decision we wanted.

     

  • At 2:45 PM, Blogger Danielle Belton said…

    OK. I reread your post. I think I was misinterpreting the word "blow," since it can go so many ways. That said, Sepedafriend, what do you think is wrong with bars downtown and how do you think it could be fixed?

    (Initially, that's what this thread was about, but folks can talk about whatever they want ...)

     

  • At 9:25 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Here's my take on this:

    I've been to DTJ with friends over the years, and know the reputation of some of the bouncers who seemed to relish any opportunity to bust a few skulls. A few of these guys had a rep of liking a job that gave them an opportunity to get into altercations.

    These bouncers are citizens, NOT law enforcement officers, and have no legal right to assault anyone.

    Law enforcement officers are trained to respond with appropriate force, and God help the LAPD officer who applys a choke hold.

    I wasn't there that night, and don't know what really happened, but will say those bouncers are hardly skilled in the art of careful application of force...

     

  • At 10:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    who of you that sees a man lying in the street would stop and help that individual? was anyone helping dan while he lay thrown outside? shouldnt of been the responsibility of the bouncers to make sure he woke up from the choke hold? I hear that the bouncers just threw him out like a dog? how would you feel if that was your son lying on the ground? todays youth dont have the same morals as long before, society is changing,just because you have tatoos or baggy cloths does not make you a thug. thugs cant afford to go out and have a few drinks.most working people cant either,most thugs dont care about their bodies,dan did he worked out downtown and had many friends of all walks of life. about 300 or more people attended his funeral.dan loved all kinds of peole if any of you seen bananza, you could compare dan to hoss.

     

  • At 9:10 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    It's really sad to read these
    comments from people who cannot use
    proper grammer and or spell.
    Leave your comments to yourselves.
    Not everyone is interested in all
    of your opinions; and that is all they are.

     

  • At 11:28 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    It's really sad to read these
    comments from people who cannot use proper grammer and or spell.

    Uh, it's spelled 'grammar'.

    And even though it's not the King's English, it's become standard practice to write that as 'and/or'. :)

    Nothing like sticking one's foot in their mouth while shooting it off, eh?

     

  • At 5:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    your article is bias

     

  • At 9:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    sepedafriend YOUR RIGHT, AND THANKS FOR UNDERSTANDING!!!!


    The night my brother passed away he went to that bar planning on having a good time. Earlier that day my brother was with his kids and a couple of his nieces and nephews, they went to the park and played basketball;they had a blast. All you people who are saying my bother wasn't acting responsibly don't know what your talking about! Danny was trying to stop the fight and the bouncers came at him full force, what was he supposed to do? My brother was claustrobic so those bouncers all over him forced him to panic and choking him made my brother fight back. He was fighting for his life!!! Theres a limit and the bouncers crossed it, you should know when to stop choking somebody. It was said that when my brother was laying outside people offered to do CPR and he wasn't to be touched. If the bouncers were only trying to help then why didn't they try to help him when he wasn't breathing?

    R.I.P BRO,WE ALL LOVE AND MISS YOU!

     

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