More on "Joe's Woes"
Sunday The Californian ran a pair of stories by Christina Vance on Daniel Sepeda's death and the subsequent death threats towards the now closed Downtown Joe's.
One is from the perspective of an anonymous bouncer who was working Downtown Joe's that night. The other is a report from Sepeda's funeral with his friends and family giving their side of what happened.
Man, this turned into "Rashomon" pretty fast.
Just like in Kurosawa's 1950 film, what happened that night pretty much depends on who you asked.
In the bouncer's story the club is packed and Joe's, over the past six months, has been frequented more and more often by a "thug" element.
In the funeral story, a friend of Sepeda's who was there said the bar wasn't crowded at all and that she could clearly see through the crowd.
The bouncer said he was trying to help Sepeda and claims the man attacked him.
Sepeda's friends say bouncers overreacted when a small scuffle started between Sepeda and another man.
The only thing both stories seem to agree on was that Sepeda was put into a chokehold and tossed outside the club onto the sidewalk.
One is from the perspective of an anonymous bouncer who was working Downtown Joe's that night. The other is a report from Sepeda's funeral with his friends and family giving their side of what happened.
Man, this turned into "Rashomon" pretty fast.
Just like in Kurosawa's 1950 film, what happened that night pretty much depends on who you asked.
In the bouncer's story the club is packed and Joe's, over the past six months, has been frequented more and more often by a "thug" element.
In the funeral story, a friend of Sepeda's who was there said the bar wasn't crowded at all and that she could clearly see through the crowd.
The bouncer said he was trying to help Sepeda and claims the man attacked him.
Sepeda's friends say bouncers overreacted when a small scuffle started between Sepeda and another man.
The only thing both stories seem to agree on was that Sepeda was put into a chokehold and tossed outside the club onto the sidewalk.
posted by Danielle Belton @ 11:05 AM
21 Comments:
At 6:24 AM,
Anonymous said…
I too, read the stories posted earlier, along with some community blogs regarding the incident. It seems that a lot of blame was placed on the area, and the other establishments such as Riley's and The Alley Cat. Both Riley's and The Alley Cat were portrayed as "sleezy" or "dives". This is unfair. Kenny Reed, the owner of The Alley Cat, is quite involved in the community. Most of the patrons who go there are good,family type people. Riley's is a place you can go to dance and socialize, while The Alley Cat has traditionally been a place similar to "Cheers", where everybody knows your name. I've gone to The Alley Cat off and on for over 10 years, sometimes less than 3 or 4 times a year. The bartenders and bouncers are just average guys, with families to support, usually working their way towards advanced degrees, or supplementing another mainstream "typical" job. It has always been a "safe" place to go,with the staff maintaining order even with difficult patrons. People are responsible for their own behaviors. Many people come downtown after "partying" at other places, already past the point of no return. If someone gets out of line, they should expect to be asked to leave. If they become assaultive or belligerent, they should expect to be escorted out, if they become resistant to leaving or assaultive towards the staff or other patrons, they should expect some physical response. The bouncers are there to promote safety, protect patrons from those who can't hold their liquor and keep underage people out. If you are fighting, regardless of how crowded the place is, regardless of how many people are involved, you are out of control. It is not the bouncers fault that you are out of control. It is not socially acceptable to fight. Period. Own up to your own responsibilities, and don't put the blame on the establishments or their staff.
At 12:32 PM,
Anonymous said…
in this case it was not that inocent,bouncers where the ones that where out of control, and should not be let off that easy. to give the other bad reps,
At 1:20 PM,
Anonymous said…
Let's all try to remember that the person who was unfortunately killed was a gang member. He was trying to fight several bouncers at the same time. It took several bouncers because "Big Dan" would not stop fighting all of them. It is a tragedy that someone died, but his lifestyle invited trouble. He could have left like the other ten people involved in the fight and that would have been the end of it. He kept fighting, and the bouncers did what they had to do to get him under control. The bouncers' only intention was to remove a serious threat to everyone else's safety.
At 7:32 PM,
Anonymous said…
who cares
At 11:43 PM,
Anonymous said…
I'm with the last post...who really cares? Big Dan sounds as if he was a thug looking for trouble by drinking excessively and letting his ego stand in the way of good judgement, along with the beer. If he was such a loving man, why was he out at the bars instead of spending time with his child? I drove by a car wash to raise money for his funeral and I didn't stop. This death was not neccesary. He could have left the club and gone home before the fight began. Furthermore, what is with the photo in the Californian showing a girl with a can of spary paint vandalizing the front of the bar? Why wasn't she arrested? Do they travel around with spray paint? Furthermore, why do people always have car washes for funeral money. Do they feel the public should pay to bury their loved ones?
At 11:45 PM,
Anonymous said…
Nobody is ever accountable for their own actions anymore. Let me guess, an attorney will figure out a way to sue the bar owner, the bouncers, and the city of bakersfield for not supplying enough police downtown. Come on....own up to it. Give me a break
At 12:31 AM,
Anonymous said…
The way i see it is..Live like a gangster die like a gangster. You put yourself in a situation where injury or death can occur then you deserve what you get.
At 7:54 AM,
Anonymous said…
I am tired of hearing about these
people who are "victims".
The man chose to drink, chose not to comply, and now a family is left
without him due to his choices.
As far as bars are concerned, most
patrons are there for the same
reasons; To get plastered, pick up
someone, or are looking for a fight.
It's foolish to beleive that the
bar owners of "Alley Cat" (the name
says enough), "Riley's" or "Downtown Joe's" are suprised by
anything that occured that night or
any other night when problems arise. It obviously goes with the
territory; always has.
Most good "family type" people are
not the ones in bars, at least the
ones I know. They are usually at
home with or doing things with
"their family" not sucking down
alcohol in a bar, a dive or a fancy
one.
At 8:23 AM,
Anonymous said…
I agree with the last posting. I love going downtown. I work down here and enjoy the atmosphere at Riley's & the Alley Cat. People, for the most part, arent down there to cause problems or looking to fight, just hang out and have fun. I too have been going to the Alley Cat for well over 10 years and have never had a problem. There have been scuffels that are quickly stoped, but that's it. I have been in the middle of bigger, scarier fights at Rockin Rodeo and no police have showed up. Case in point, last weekend, Saturday night, there was a huge fight at Rockin Rodeo & I never saw a cop. In fact, the guy that started and caused all the problems was still out in the parking lot hours later. So my point is, no matter where you go, if someone is looking for trouble or cant hold their liquor, there will be a problem no matter what city, state, bar or area your in.
At 8:59 AM,
Anonymous said…
so when did you all meet big dan you dont judge a person by his friends behavior. so now you all know how much he had to drink.only god can judge.and dan is in heaven now,
At 9:26 AM,
Danielle Belton said…
Per the car washes for funerals comment: The cost for a funeral is in the thousands of dollars, often costing as much as $5,000 for a simple service.
If you're broke, as a lot of people in Bakersfield are, you don't have the money for it. But you still have to bury the person. My grandmother made monthly payments to her funeral home in Newport, Arksansas for more than 15 years to cover either herself or my grandpa's funeral. My grandpa died and the thing still costed thousands of dollars.
Fortunatly, my granny had eight grown children who could help her out. Sadly, most people aren't that fortunate. Therefore, the car washes.
No one does that unless they REALLY need the money. I mean, c'mon. It's humiliating for people to beg, that's why they're offering to work for it by washing the car. There's nothing sadder than someone who needs money to bury their loved one because they were so poor they family could barely cover rent every month, let alone a funeral.
At 12:10 PM,
Anonymous said…
so how do you know he ran with a gang.where you in that gang too.
At 1:15 PM,
Anonymous said…
I agree with you, a funeral does cost a lot of money. But as you stated, your Grandma made monthly payments for years. She was being responsible. God, I hope if I die the life insurance I pay on each month will cover my final expense. I am being responsible to my daughter and family. I would never expect her to go wash a car to put me 6 feet under. Life is all about choice. Some of us make responsible choices and some of us do not. Don't live in poverty. PUll yourself out of the cycle and get a diploma and go to BC for heavens sake. One can go there for free through aide. It's all about choice.
At 10:34 AM,
Anonymous said…
"As far as bars are concerned, most
patrons are there for the same
reasons; To get plastered, pick up
someone, or are looking for a fight.
It's foolish to beleive that the
bar owners of "Alley Cat" (the name
says enough), "Riley's" or "Downtown Joe's" are suprised by
anything that occured that night or
any other night when problems arise. It obviously goes with the
territory; always has.
Most good "family type" people are
not the ones in bars, at least the
ones I know. They are usually at
home with or doing things with
"their family" not sucking down
alcohol in a bar, a dive or a fancy
one."
This was posted earlier. Oh please! You are over-generalizing. I have seen many respectable, family type people, including off duty law enforcement, local politicians, business owners, etc. in our area clubs. My friends and I do not go to the bars to "get plastered, pick up someone, or look for a fight". We go with our friends to socialize, dance, people watch, and relax. I am a "good, family type" person, the mother of three and the grandmother of one. To expect that people not go out is silly. I also do not always drink when I go out, and know several people who go to bars, but don't drink. They are usually called "designated drivers".
The bar owners are not always suprised when fights and other events occur. Yes, sometimes it is expected, that is why they hire BOUNCERS! I am sure they would be quite happy if people controlled their own behaviors, and they didn't have to hire "baby-sitters" for adults.
Again, if you have had too much to drink, and are with your friends, hopefully they will convince you to leave. If you become belligerent, and start to fight, expect someone to ask you to leave, and then do so. Be responsible.
At 8:33 PM,
Anonymous said…
Big Dan in Heaven! How do you know this? I doubt thats where he's at.
At 10:14 PM,
Anonymous said…
Everyone is forgetting one thing no one is a winner. does having a few beers, socializing,a bad thing? someone is dead. the dead person cant defend himself. should we all be afraid to go out and have a good time? it is very sad thing to lose someone in a stupid death. who was at fault? let me pose a few questions,was any attempt made to revive this individual once the brawl was under control? the bouncers noted they threw him out, he was unconcious, was that the right thing to do after knocking someone unconcious? if these bouncers were protecting him from the other people, why would they leave a man who they were trying to protect outside unconcious? theres a very big gap in this story, how did it get from protection from others to murder? can there really be any justification.
At 10:21 PM,
Anonymous said…
I feel saddened because dan was not the only one that made a bad choice bouncers are there to keep the peace and protect patrons. were they really protecting someone when they are thrown out unconcious. the unconcious individual cant protect himself, their moral duty was to help any individual in need, we can certainly see that mr. dan was in a needy state, the bouncer put him in that predictament and left him to fend for himself.
At 12:58 AM,
Anonymous said…
Yes, life is about choices, you sound like me I thought I was the one who posted that.....BC yes
At 9:13 PM,
Anonymous said…
So....they found high levels of PCP in his system. Well, sounds like the bouncers were right after all. DA is not pressing chargers, way to go!
At 11:07 PM,
Anonymous said…
It says a lot about "Big Dan" that the first response of his loved ones was to threaten to kill the employees of the bar, in the form of graffiti no less.
At 5:34 AM,
Anonymous said…
Its funny how the family of sepeda jumped at every opputunity to talk to the press and demand justice! But when new information was made public that he had high levels of PCP in his system! they were no where to be found for comment! Its a no win situation for The bar owner and its staff! If Big Dan were to have killed a fellow bar patron! The bar and staff would have been held liable! And if a bouncer was killed by Big Dan! Most would have said! Thats his job! he knew it was dangerouse! and would Big Dan and his family get sued! Hummm! Not! I was there and a bouncer really did manage to get 3 people off of big dan while he was fighting 4! and what thanks did he get? he got to fight Big dan on PCP by himself for a couple of minutes before anyone was able to help him! so all these stories of bouncers mobing him and being out of control! give me a break I was there and saw the whole thing!
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